1 00:00:01,290 --> 00:00:04,300 'You're not gonna believe this. I'm sitting next to Dad!' 2 00:00:04,820 --> 00:00:06,100 He's alive! 3 00:00:06,590 --> 00:00:10,610 Mark, you have your father back. I'm so happy for you. 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,970 Would you mind? It's just a thing we do with our clients. 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,840 John Darwin? I'm arresting you on suspicion of fraud. 6 00:00:18,870 --> 00:00:20,580 This is ridiculous. 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,300 'Since our dad was arrested, 8 00:00:22,330 --> 00:00:26,400 'we are very much in an angry and confused state of mind.' 9 00:00:26,430 --> 00:00:29,930 The front cover of today's Daily Mirror simply reads: 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,850 "John never had amnesia." 11 00:00:33,830 --> 00:00:35,830 Firstly, I think you're a good person who, 12 00:00:35,860 --> 00:00:37,990 for reasons that are probably very complicated, 13 00:00:38,020 --> 00:00:39,170 did a truly dreadful thing. 14 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:40,620 Second, tell the police the truth 15 00:00:40,650 --> 00:00:43,260 and start rebuilding your relationship with your boys. 16 00:00:43,290 --> 00:00:46,060 Anne Darwin? I'm arresting you on suspicion of fraud. 17 00:00:46,090 --> 00:00:48,560 We've not spoken to either of our parents... 18 00:00:48,850 --> 00:00:50,380 ...And at this present time, 19 00:00:50,410 --> 00:00:53,610 we want no further contact with them. 20 00:00:58,810 --> 00:01:01,240 'We've not spoken to either of our parents, 21 00:01:01,850 --> 00:01:03,500 and at this present time, 22 00:01:03,990 --> 00:01:07,210 'we want no further contact with them.' 23 00:01:29,140 --> 00:01:30,570 - Anne. - Hello. 24 00:01:31,740 --> 00:01:34,280 Hello, I'm Nicola. 25 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:37,520 - Hello, nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you too. 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,760 How long will I get? 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,350 Do you think, in prison? How long might I get? 28 00:01:45,250 --> 00:01:46,770 So, it's very simple. 29 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,120 We stick her in one room, stick him in another, 30 00:01:49,150 --> 00:01:50,770 and we play them off. 31 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,350 Bottom line, Anne, the more honest you are with us, 32 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:57,920 the more information you can give us about 33 00:01:57,950 --> 00:01:59,150 what actually happened here, 34 00:01:59,180 --> 00:02:02,050 the quicker we'll have all this sorted. OK? 35 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,200 - Yes. - Good. 36 00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:06,140 And so we are interviewing her 37 00:02:06,170 --> 00:02:07,520 at the same time as speaking to you, 38 00:02:07,550 --> 00:02:10,930 which means any answers you give us, we'll be checking with her 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,070 to see if they tally up and vice versa, 40 00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:14,100 does that make sense? 41 00:02:14,130 --> 00:02:15,480 - Yes. - Good... 42 00:02:15,510 --> 00:02:17,910 Although do bear in mind that Anne does not have 43 00:02:17,940 --> 00:02:21,190 a very sophisticated grasp of financial matters. 44 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:24,310 - Right. - Just the one brain cell, you see. 45 00:02:24,620 --> 00:02:26,520 Your wife of 34 years. 46 00:02:26,550 --> 00:02:27,820 Tell me about it. 47 00:02:27,850 --> 00:02:30,570 Would you like me to repeat the question, Anne? 48 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:33,380 No, I heard the question. 49 00:02:38,690 --> 00:02:40,510 When I started the insurance claim, 50 00:02:40,540 --> 00:02:42,570 I still believed him to be dead. 51 00:02:43,260 --> 00:02:45,370 You took quite a long time to answer that. 52 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:46,140 But she did. 53 00:02:46,170 --> 00:02:48,030 I'm just wondering why you hesitated? 54 00:02:48,060 --> 00:02:49,880 She's answered the question. Can you move on, please? 55 00:02:49,910 --> 00:02:52,340 Just remember, Anne, this is your interview. 56 00:02:52,370 --> 00:02:55,680 This is your chance to tell us your side of things. 57 00:02:59,690 --> 00:03:01,800 He turned up half way through. 58 00:03:01,830 --> 00:03:02,770 'It's not true.' 59 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,960 I turned up after they'd been paid out. 60 00:03:04,990 --> 00:03:07,100 I thought you said you couldn't remember when you turned up. 61 00:03:07,130 --> 00:03:09,130 The specific month, I said. 62 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,310 But you can specifically remember 63 00:03:11,340 --> 00:03:13,290 that it was after the claim was settled? 64 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:14,360 Yes. 65 00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:18,510 Which month was the claim settled, then? 66 00:03:22,610 --> 00:03:24,700 Nice try. I don't remember. 67 00:03:24,730 --> 00:03:26,710 This isn't the "Yes, no" game, John. 68 00:03:26,950 --> 00:03:29,800 Your wife has already told us that you never had amnesia. 69 00:03:29,830 --> 00:03:32,670 She's mistaken. Perhaps she's forgotten. 70 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,600 Yes, he told me he'd faked the whole thing. 71 00:03:36,030 --> 00:03:38,010 - His disappearance? - Yes. 72 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,290 - For financial reasons? - Yeah. 73 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,650 Did he tell you where he'd been? 74 00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:48,290 No. "Around and about," He said. 75 00:03:49,580 --> 00:03:52,240 - For over a year? - Y-Yes. 76 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:54,690 Ok. 77 00:03:56,830 --> 00:03:59,620 But why didn't you go straight to the police at that point? 78 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,960 He said if we went to the police... 79 00:04:03,410 --> 00:04:06,420 ...We'd have to pay the insurance money back immediately, 80 00:04:06,450 --> 00:04:08,920 and then we'd be back where we'd started. 81 00:04:08,950 --> 00:04:11,490 - Facing bankruptcy? - Yes. 82 00:04:13,540 --> 00:04:16,410 So what was his plan at this point? 83 00:04:17,140 --> 00:04:20,430 For me to sell all the other houses, and then hand himself in 84 00:04:20,460 --> 00:04:22,540 when we were in a position to pay the money back. 85 00:04:22,570 --> 00:04:27,080 - OK. And how's that plan going? - Well, I'm here, aren't I? 86 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:30,690 - I'm not with you. - Why else do you think I returned? 87 00:04:31,540 --> 00:04:33,530 - I don't know, why did you? - To pay the money back. 88 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,010 Oh, so you've made contact with the insurance companies, then? 89 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,860 Well, I would have, if you hadn't arrested me. 90 00:04:39,010 --> 00:04:41,260 So it's our fault. We spoilt your plan? 91 00:04:41,290 --> 00:04:42,380 You and the press. 92 00:04:42,410 --> 00:04:45,160 - Ah, well, apologies. - Accepted. 93 00:04:47,530 --> 00:04:49,580 Can I just ask, though, John, 94 00:04:49,790 --> 00:04:52,350 if your plan was to sell all the properties, 95 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:54,580 with the intention of paying the money back 96 00:04:54,610 --> 00:04:56,150 when you got straight... 97 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,780 ...Why did you move to Panama? 98 00:05:02,430 --> 00:05:03,760 No comment. 99 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,320 And buy a flat there? 100 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:07,880 No comment. 101 00:05:07,910 --> 00:05:09,230 And a plot of land? 102 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:11,740 No comment. 103 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,710 Well, Anne, why did you just go along with it? 104 00:05:15,740 --> 00:05:18,560 Why didn't you tell him it was wrong and dishonest? 105 00:05:19,180 --> 00:05:20,900 I should have and... 106 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:23,840 ...I should have told the boys at that point, 107 00:05:23,870 --> 00:05:25,880 but he said if I went to the police, 108 00:05:25,910 --> 00:05:28,210 he'd tell them I was in it from the start. 109 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,370 You were an adult. You could've refused. 110 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,610 And I bitterly regret my decision, but... 111 00:05:35,670 --> 00:05:38,360 ...He was hard to resist - John was very forceful. 112 00:05:43,420 --> 00:05:44,610 Anne. 113 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:46,450 Why... 114 00:05:48,370 --> 00:05:50,620 Why don't you just tell us the truth? 115 00:05:54,050 --> 00:05:56,660 You were in on it from the start, weren't you? 116 00:05:56,690 --> 00:05:59,810 She's answered the question. Can you move on, please? 117 00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:06,310 So the, er, life insurance policies that you took out 118 00:06:06,340 --> 00:06:08,420 just three months before you went missing, 119 00:06:08,450 --> 00:06:10,450 is that date relevant, John? 120 00:06:10,860 --> 00:06:12,070 You tell me. 121 00:06:12,100 --> 00:06:14,200 No, you tell me. That's how this works. 122 00:06:14,230 --> 00:06:15,980 - Is that date relevant? - No. 123 00:06:16,010 --> 00:06:18,760 No? So it's pure coincidence 124 00:06:18,980 --> 00:06:23,400 that you took out a life insurance policy in December 2001, 125 00:06:23,430 --> 00:06:25,840 which then allowed your wife to make a very large claim 126 00:06:25,870 --> 00:06:27,830 - just 12 weeks later? - Yes. 127 00:06:27,860 --> 00:06:30,430 Is it also a coincidence that on a computer hard drive, 128 00:06:30,460 --> 00:06:32,920 taken from your house soon after your disappearance, 129 00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:35,090 we've since found a downloaded file 130 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,660 titled "Missing Persons and Police Investigations"? 131 00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:42,870 One of the boys must have downloaded that. 132 00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:46,960 It was dated a month before you went missing, John. 133 00:06:49,730 --> 00:06:50,930 Fair play. 134 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:53,470 That's a tricky one. 135 00:06:54,390 --> 00:06:57,760 OK, I'm now showing Anne Exhibit AB01, 136 00:06:57,790 --> 00:06:59,740 which is a copy of a library card, 137 00:06:59,770 --> 00:07:02,160 registered at Hartlepool library, 138 00:07:02,190 --> 00:07:05,750 in the name of "John Jones". 139 00:07:05,780 --> 00:07:09,260 Anne, can you tell me who you see... 140 00:07:09,670 --> 00:07:11,030 on that photo? 141 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:13,280 It's John. 142 00:07:13,550 --> 00:07:16,070 Except this fella has a beard. 143 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:18,930 - I presume you can grow a beard? - Yes. 144 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,750 OK, so is that you, but with a beard? 145 00:07:24,340 --> 00:07:25,120 Maybe. 146 00:07:25,150 --> 00:07:27,560 John, I'm asking if you can identify yourself. 147 00:07:27,590 --> 00:07:29,930 - No comment. - OK, well... 148 00:07:30,250 --> 00:07:32,670 perhaps you could read two things out for me, then. 149 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:35,410 The date it was issued and the address. 150 00:07:37,330 --> 00:07:40,360 22nd of April 2002. 151 00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:42,550 Address, Number Four, 152 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,490 The Cliff, Seaton Carew. 153 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:46,520 OK. 154 00:07:46,820 --> 00:07:50,260 So just four weeks after you went missing, 155 00:07:50,290 --> 00:07:52,780 a man who looked very much like you... 156 00:07:52,810 --> 00:07:54,680 Ah, yeah, but with a beard, yeah, 157 00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:58,400 applies for a library card and gives your home address. 158 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,200 But this man's called John Jones! 159 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:04,270 Come on, Anne, 160 00:08:04,300 --> 00:08:07,160 he was living at number four from day one, wasn't he? 161 00:08:07,190 --> 00:08:09,570 - No. - And you knew from day one. 162 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:10,880 I didn't. 163 00:08:11,350 --> 00:08:14,450 - Were your boys in on it, too? - No, absolutely not. 164 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,860 Cos our economic crime unit is finding all sorts of things. 165 00:08:17,890 --> 00:08:20,560 - What things? - Money transfers to Mark and Anthony, 166 00:08:20,590 --> 00:08:22,980 fake property sales to Mark. 167 00:08:23,290 --> 00:08:26,360 Basically money laundering, very serious offence. 168 00:08:26,390 --> 00:08:28,180 That was just an inheritance tax thing. 169 00:08:28,210 --> 00:08:31,960 Please, they never knew anything about any of this, please. 170 00:08:34,420 --> 00:08:37,910 It's interesting how upset you're getting... 171 00:08:38,750 --> 00:08:42,390 ...And I tell you, I do not wanna have to bring your lads in. 172 00:08:42,420 --> 00:08:43,130 Please don't. 173 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,360 The best way to head that off is for you tell us the whole truth. 174 00:08:47,390 --> 00:08:49,860 You were in on it from the start, weren't you? 175 00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:50,590 No. 176 00:08:50,620 --> 00:08:54,110 And you knew John was perfectly fine when you dialled 999 177 00:08:54,140 --> 00:08:54,970 and said he was missing. 178 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,430 In fact, I'm surprised the attending officer didn't see 179 00:08:58,460 --> 00:09:01,090 wet footprints going up the stairs. 180 00:09:02,590 --> 00:09:03,850 Am I right? 181 00:09:08,060 --> 00:09:09,430 No comment. 182 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,520 'Have a seat.' 183 00:09:17,590 --> 00:09:20,330 So, we need to have a talk about bail. 184 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:21,770 No. No bail. 185 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,340 You do understand what happens now, don't you, Anne? 186 00:09:26,370 --> 00:09:30,470 Anyone not released on bail is kept in a prison, 187 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:33,130 on remand, until their trial. 188 00:09:35,210 --> 00:09:36,980 Where would I even go? 189 00:09:38,650 --> 00:09:42,660 I only have one friend, and she won't speak to me now. 190 00:09:43,030 --> 00:09:44,820 Obviously none of my family would want me, 191 00:09:44,850 --> 00:09:46,450 so where would I even go? 192 00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:56,270 Mind the step. 193 00:09:57,250 --> 00:09:58,830 Take a seat here, please. 194 00:10:23,170 --> 00:10:25,030 - Heya. - Hey. 195 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,290 It's all good, no-one's followed me. 196 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,710 I know you think I'm overreacting but last night... 197 00:10:31,940 --> 00:10:34,370 ...There were about 50 of them outside the house. 198 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,000 Lou's had to go stay with her parents. 199 00:10:36,030 --> 00:10:37,570 I've had to check in here. 200 00:10:37,630 --> 00:10:40,870 - So I just spoke to the police again. - And? 201 00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:43,070 They'll want to interview us at some point. 202 00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:45,300 As "Witnesses", apparently, now. 203 00:10:45,630 --> 00:10:47,820 Well, we don't do anything without a solicitor. 204 00:10:47,850 --> 00:10:49,700 I'll call my lawyer, shall I? 205 00:10:49,850 --> 00:10:51,860 Uncle Michael's sorting us out with one. 206 00:10:53,180 --> 00:10:54,280 How is he? 207 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:56,400 Same as all of us. 208 00:10:58,450 --> 00:11:00,540 I just can't stop thinking about the... 209 00:11:01,810 --> 00:11:06,220 ...Literally hundreds of times we went up there, Mark... 210 00:11:07,490 --> 00:11:09,210 ...To keep her spirits up 211 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,430 whilst we were dying inside. 212 00:11:12,010 --> 00:11:14,160 'D'you know how it makes me feel, mate?' 213 00:11:14,270 --> 00:11:16,220 Makes me really hate her. 214 00:11:16,580 --> 00:11:18,510 I'm raging about them both, 215 00:11:18,540 --> 00:11:21,400 but at least he only told one lie. 216 00:11:23,050 --> 00:11:24,850 An evil, horrible one... 217 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,270 ...But it was just one. 218 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:28,590 'Anne Darwin?' 219 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,800 'She lied to us every day for five-and-a-half years. 220 00:11:33,940 --> 00:11:35,930 'Every single day.' 221 00:11:36,420 --> 00:11:37,260 You start thinking, 222 00:11:37,290 --> 00:11:40,380 "Well, if she could lie so easily about that, 223 00:11:40,410 --> 00:11:42,830 "About our actual dad being dead... 224 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,680 "...What else could she have lied about?" 225 00:11:47,490 --> 00:11:48,760 Clothes in here. 226 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:51,560 Put your wedding ring in here. 227 00:11:55,820 --> 00:11:59,980 And then I think, "Wow, is it all just some... 228 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,540 "...Fucked-up lie?" 229 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:05,830 Our family... 230 00:12:07,470 --> 00:12:08,970 ...Our childhood... 231 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:13,730 ...Our whole life with them? 232 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,940 Did either of them ever even genuinely love us? 233 00:12:28,910 --> 00:12:30,130 So that's me. 234 00:12:31,890 --> 00:12:33,450 That's where I am, mate. 235 00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:37,600 'And here I was. 236 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,010 'Where I'd feared ending up all my life. 237 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:44,920 'Utterly alone.' 238 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,110 'It's from John.' 239 00:13:11,340 --> 00:13:15,940 "Dear Dad, just to let you know, please don't worry." 240 00:13:17,660 --> 00:13:18,790 Carry on. 241 00:13:21,140 --> 00:13:24,290 Sorry. That's it. 242 00:13:28,460 --> 00:13:30,460 'I really don't think you've given any thought 243 00:13:30,490 --> 00:13:32,090 'as to what it's like for me. 244 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,880 'An ex-prison officer in prison. 245 00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:38,320 'I've had my food spat in, I've been punched, abused verbally. 246 00:13:38,350 --> 00:13:40,070 Whatever you think it's like for you, 247 00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:42,880 'it's so much worse for me.' 248 00:13:43,050 --> 00:13:44,780 'Except it wasn't. 249 00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:47,110 'John had already given up his boys once, 250 00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:49,250 'without a second thought, really. 251 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,670 'For me, it felt like my heart had been ripped out. 252 00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:58,680 'My darling son, I wanted to write you again 253 00:13:58,710 --> 00:14:02,450 'to tell you how profoundly sorry I am for what I have done. 254 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,250 'I will never be able to explain my actions, 255 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,070 'because what I did was as inexplicable 256 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:10,240 'as it was unforgiveable. 257 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,710 'But what I can say is that I love you so much. 258 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,530 'I always have loved you, and I always will love you, 259 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,090 'even if you never want to see me again, 260 00:14:23,420 --> 00:14:26,620 'which I fully expect to be the case.' 261 00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:46,170 'And indeed, despite the dozens of letters I wrote to them 262 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,290 'over the next few months, neither replied. 263 00:14:51,270 --> 00:14:53,490 'How could I possibly blame them? 264 00:14:54,090 --> 00:14:55,810 'And so, finally... 265 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,450 '...Finally, I realised there was only one way forward 266 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,820 'if I ever wanted to see them again.' 267 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:06,840 'I lied.' 268 00:15:06,930 --> 00:15:09,530 I was in on it from the very start. 269 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,860 So you knew, before he went out in the canoe, 270 00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:18,400 that he intended to fake his own death? 271 00:15:19,810 --> 00:15:21,230 Yes, I did. 272 00:15:21,310 --> 00:15:24,480 - And when you reported him missing? - I knew he was fine. 273 00:15:24,510 --> 00:15:26,600 In fact, I'd picked him up from North Gare beach 274 00:15:26,630 --> 00:15:27,780 about two hours before 275 00:15:27,810 --> 00:15:29,970 and then driven him to Durham station, 276 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,490 where he got the train to the lakes 277 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,480 and camped by a stream for the next three weeks. 278 00:15:34,510 --> 00:15:36,660 He then came back to Seaton 279 00:15:36,690 --> 00:15:41,030 and lived between number three and four for the next five years. 280 00:15:41,970 --> 00:15:44,240 I never wanted to do any of it. 281 00:15:45,150 --> 00:15:49,170 And I tried constantly to persuade him not to. 282 00:15:51,980 --> 00:15:53,740 But I did do it. 283 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:56,800 I was in on it... 284 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,180 ...From the very beginning. 285 00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:04,500 And I'm very, very sorry. 286 00:16:30,060 --> 00:16:31,170 Ok. 287 00:16:32,650 --> 00:16:33,700 Yes. 288 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:37,950 I faked it all. 289 00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:56,640 Oh, my God. John. 290 00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:08,600 - They said I could see you for two minutes. - Who did? 291 00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:10,070 J... please... 292 00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,630 Cos we're all we have now, love. Each other... 293 00:17:12,660 --> 00:17:16,130 - John, someone could walk in... - We just have to stick together. 294 00:17:16,180 --> 00:17:17,810 That's enough, fella. 295 00:17:18,420 --> 00:17:20,440 Right, out, now! 296 00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:27,590 I also wanted to tell you... 297 00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:30,930 ...That I forgive you, Anne. 298 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:32,920 I do. 299 00:17:42,810 --> 00:17:44,410 Call me, Anne! 300 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,050 'Even harder than confessing to the police 301 00:18:01,270 --> 00:18:05,380 'was telling my parents that the daughter they had always adored 302 00:18:05,420 --> 00:18:09,760 'had betrayed every single principle they had ever believed in. 303 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,580 'I fully expected them to disown me.' 304 00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:24,100 'But I am guilty.' 305 00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:26,380 Well, that's what I'm saying, 306 00:18:26,410 --> 00:18:28,310 if we can prove that you were coerced, 307 00:18:28,340 --> 00:18:29,940 then no, you're not. 308 00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:32,630 I didn't have to do anything. 309 00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:34,750 I was an adult, I made my own choices. 310 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:36,470 He never threatened me or hurt me. 311 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,080 Physically, no, but emotionally? 312 00:18:39,550 --> 00:18:41,800 Every day of your life together, as I understand it, 313 00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:44,470 and I think I can argue that that wears a person down, 314 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,940 day after day year after year, 315 00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:49,520 till they no longer have the strength to resist. 316 00:18:50,340 --> 00:18:53,950 So what would I get? For a guilty plea, I mean. 317 00:18:53,980 --> 00:18:57,280 Maybe... three years? 318 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,620 Four, four-and-a-half if you go not guilty and lose, 319 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,160 which I should stress is entirely possible. 320 00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:09,050 It's a tough defence to prove. 321 00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:12,260 But if it succeeded? 322 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,430 Well, then you'd walk free. 323 00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:22,090 'It was a horrible decision to have to make. 324 00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:23,830 'And for many weeks, 325 00:19:23,860 --> 00:19:28,820 'I had absolutely no idea what the right thing to do was.' 326 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,380 'Officers requested in rec area three. 327 00:19:37,410 --> 00:19:39,650 'Please report to Officer Crenshaw.' 328 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,450 'And then a few days before my first hearing, 329 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,850 'my parents came to see me. 330 00:19:45,610 --> 00:19:48,360 'These good, good people, 331 00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:52,600 'my flesh and blood who had been so shamed and let down, 332 00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:56,700 'told me whatever I'd done, they still loved me. 333 00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,480 'That they would always love me.' 334 00:20:01,110 --> 00:20:04,840 I'm so scared my parents will die before I get out. 335 00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:10,120 And I think, if I could just see my boys... 336 00:20:10,580 --> 00:20:13,340 ...Talk to them, maybe I could... 337 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,390 And he did make me do it, he really did. 338 00:20:18,420 --> 00:20:21,250 I... I tried to stop him so many times. 339 00:20:21,730 --> 00:20:25,990 OK, well, the pre-trial hearing is in three weeks. 340 00:20:26,510 --> 00:20:30,190 - How do you want to plead? - I want to go not guilty. 341 00:20:42,810 --> 00:20:45,310 'And then, finally, the day arrived. 342 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:48,200 'I'm not sure what I was more scared of - 343 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,800 'the trial itself or seeing my boys in court, 344 00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:57,180 'a torment John had avoided by already pleading guilty. 345 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,210 'I was on my own.' 346 00:21:01,650 --> 00:21:03,580 OK, Anne, it's time. 347 00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:07,460 'Members of the jury, the defendant stands before you, 348 00:21:07,490 --> 00:21:10,990 'charged with 15 counts of deception 349 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,660 'and money laundering. 350 00:21:12,690 --> 00:21:16,610 'Mrs Darwin's defence is one of marital coercion, 351 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,010 'but, for this to succeed, it must be shown 352 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,500 'that her husband was present each time an offence was committed. 353 00:21:24,530 --> 00:21:25,780 'It is the Crown's submission 354 00:21:25,810 --> 00:21:29,260 'that not only was her husband very often not present, 355 00:21:29,290 --> 00:21:32,160 'but that over a period of five-and-a-half years, 356 00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:36,360 'and with multiple opportunities to end the deceit, 357 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,120 'she in fact repeatedly offended... 358 00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:45,310 'willingly, individually and actively.' 359 00:21:46,570 --> 00:21:47,860 'We will furthermore show 360 00:21:47,890 --> 00:21:52,130 'that, far from being a submissive and coerced wife, 361 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,690 'Mrs Darwin was in fact a clever and ingenious liar 362 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,160 'who was able to effortlessly deceive 363 00:21:59,190 --> 00:22:01,290 'on an almost industrial scale. 364 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,170 'To the police, to the Coroner's Court, 365 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,440 'to her work friends and colleagues 366 00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:10,070 'and, perhaps most shamefully, to her own children.' 367 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:11,040 All rise. 368 00:22:11,070 --> 00:22:12,610 And lastly, members of the jury, 369 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,220 as sons, daughters, mothers yourself, 370 00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:19,590 I will ask you, when you look at that infamous photo 371 00:22:19,620 --> 00:22:21,710 in a Panamanian estate agent, 372 00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:24,480 if you see a terrified woman, 373 00:22:24,510 --> 00:22:28,170 coerced in to telling her children their father was dead, 374 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,430 or if you see a devious and wily woman, 375 00:22:32,670 --> 00:22:35,740 smiling at the prospect of a new life 376 00:22:35,770 --> 00:22:37,370 in a tropical paradise, 377 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,580 paid for with the fruits of her dreadful fraud. 378 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:43,960 It crushed my world. 379 00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:46,260 Of course it did. 380 00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:49,690 I loved him. He was... He was a great dad. 381 00:22:51,410 --> 00:22:52,820 Crushed my entire world. 382 00:22:53,450 --> 00:22:55,300 'It might have appeared like I took control, 383 00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:56,530 but I didn't really.' 384 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,660 It was only ever within the confines of what he ultimately wanted. 385 00:23:02,170 --> 00:23:04,380 Are you a good liar, Mrs Darwin? 386 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,620 - I hope not. - Well, did you convince your sons 387 00:23:06,650 --> 00:23:09,300 for five-and-a-half years their father was dead? 388 00:23:10,370 --> 00:23:12,420 - Yes. - And the police? 389 00:23:13,330 --> 00:23:14,660 - Yes. - And the coroner? 390 00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:17,210 So, you are telling the court, on oath, 391 00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:19,420 that he forged your signature? 392 00:23:20,370 --> 00:23:23,860 He made a footer template of it on his computer. 393 00:23:23,890 --> 00:23:28,540 So any letter, any instruction to a bank or lawyer or whoever, 394 00:23:28,890 --> 00:23:29,970 he could write it 395 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,540 - and it would appear to be from you? - Yes. 396 00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:34,580 So, you had no idea at all? 397 00:23:34,610 --> 00:23:36,860 She told me it was to do with inheritance tax. 398 00:23:37,090 --> 00:23:38,340 And you believed her? 399 00:23:40,610 --> 00:23:41,780 She was my mother. 400 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,580 - And was money important to him? - Yes. 401 00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:47,730 - And the appearance of it? - Maybe. 402 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:48,820 And your mother? 403 00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:51,860 I'd always thought the opposite. 404 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,820 "I cannot wait to join you, my darling. 405 00:23:55,970 --> 00:23:58,180 "Missing you so much. 406 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,180 "All my love. 407 00:24:00,450 --> 00:24:03,300 "Kiss, kiss, kiss." 408 00:24:03,850 --> 00:24:05,060 Who wrote that? 409 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,380 I did. 410 00:24:10,970 --> 00:24:14,300 "Generally, I only ever take her out to vote." 411 00:24:14,330 --> 00:24:16,380 - He actually said that? - Yes. 412 00:24:16,410 --> 00:24:18,580 To a friend of his in front of you? 413 00:24:18,610 --> 00:24:20,860 Yes. I think he thought it was funny. 414 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,540 Angry, betrayed... 415 00:24:26,330 --> 00:24:27,340 ...stupid. 416 00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:29,250 I felt all of that. 417 00:24:30,130 --> 00:24:34,490 I still do. Every single day, I... still have very negative... 418 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,300 Where was John when you roped your unwitting children 419 00:24:37,330 --> 00:24:39,060 into laundering money for you? 420 00:24:39,090 --> 00:24:40,490 He was in Panama. 421 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,620 My point is that he wasn't standing over you 422 00:24:44,650 --> 00:24:45,820 as you spoke to the bank, 423 00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:48,700 forcing you to commit a criminal act, was he? 424 00:24:48,730 --> 00:24:51,300 He didn't need to actually be in the room. 425 00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:54,730 He was on the end of an email, or phone, 426 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,250 or just in my head. 427 00:24:57,090 --> 00:24:58,970 You can fight your corner, can't you? 428 00:24:59,000 --> 00:24:59,940 I can now. 429 00:24:59,970 --> 00:25:02,010 Under immense pressure, in a public trial. 430 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,860 But not, apparently, at home with your non-violent husband. 431 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,450 You don't know what to think. 432 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:10,860 I mean, it took me a long time 433 00:25:10,890 --> 00:25:12,620 to even believe the photo was real, 434 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,970 that any parent could have done such a thing. 435 00:25:15,890 --> 00:25:17,730 It took me a long time to accept that. 436 00:25:18,690 --> 00:25:21,020 I'm not even sure I have. Maybe I never will. 437 00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:25,420 Can I ask, why didn't you just leave him? 438 00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:29,140 This man you claim was an oppressive bully. 439 00:25:30,650 --> 00:25:33,210 I wanted to keep the family together. 440 00:25:34,570 --> 00:25:36,900 You "wanted to keep the family together"? 441 00:25:36,970 --> 00:25:39,380 Oh, the irony, Mrs Darwin. 442 00:25:40,890 --> 00:25:42,180 And let me ask you this. 443 00:25:42,210 --> 00:25:45,770 If you hadn't have picked John up from North Gare, 444 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,690 if you'd have said to him on the phone, 445 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:48,900 "Oh, I can't go through with this," 446 00:25:48,930 --> 00:25:51,010 or, "I'm not doing this to my boys," 447 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,010 what were you frightened was going to happen to you 448 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,730 for disobeying his request? 449 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,770 - Was he going to beat you up? - No. 450 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,420 Were you scared that when he got home, 451 00:26:00,450 --> 00:26:03,690 he might manipulate you a bit? 452 00:26:07,890 --> 00:26:10,580 I was frightened that he might leave me. 453 00:26:14,930 --> 00:26:19,060 'The jury took less than four hours to reach a verdict.' 454 00:26:20,170 --> 00:26:22,580 I accept that your husband, John Darwin, 455 00:26:22,610 --> 00:26:24,970 was the driving force behind this deceit, 456 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,700 but you, Anne, although perhaps initially unconvinced, 457 00:26:28,730 --> 00:26:31,140 went on to contribute to its success 458 00:26:31,170 --> 00:26:33,540 and play your part very efficiently. 459 00:26:33,570 --> 00:26:36,450 In my judgment, you operated as a team, 460 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,380 each adding something to the joint venture. 461 00:26:39,570 --> 00:26:41,820 And it is the duration of the offending, 462 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:43,540 its multi-faceted nature, 463 00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:47,540 and, in particular, the grief inflicted over the years 464 00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:50,820 to the real victims, your own children, 465 00:26:50,850 --> 00:26:55,620 that make this a case that merits a particularly severe sentence. 466 00:26:55,690 --> 00:26:57,450 Anne Catherine Darwin, 467 00:26:57,650 --> 00:27:02,140 I sentence you to a term of six years and six months. 468 00:27:02,170 --> 00:27:03,210 Take her down. 469 00:27:08,690 --> 00:27:11,100 'It was three months longer than John got... 470 00:27:12,130 --> 00:27:13,780 'but then I was their mother. 471 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,060 'I think most people felt I'd got what I deserved.' 472 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,450 'And so it began. 473 00:27:29,090 --> 00:27:32,660 'Six years and six months, minus parole. 474 00:27:33,450 --> 00:27:35,020 'I tried to keep busy. 475 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,380 'Keep myself distracted. 476 00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:40,860 'I continued to write to the boys, 477 00:27:41,170 --> 00:27:43,660 never really expecting a reply. 478 00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:47,820 'And John continued to write and call.' 479 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,340 Look, money's not going to be an issue, love. 480 00:27:50,370 --> 00:27:53,380 Trust me. Our story sells. 481 00:27:53,410 --> 00:27:57,250 'And I wanted to cut him off, I really did, but it was hard. 482 00:27:58,450 --> 00:28:01,970 After 35 years, and with nothing else in my life, 483 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,970 even about a bad future felt better than none whatsoever. 484 00:28:06,330 --> 00:28:07,450 Fear not. 485 00:28:07,690 --> 00:28:12,620 We play our cards right, we are going to be sitting pretty. 486 00:28:18,370 --> 00:28:21,380 And then eight months into my time inside, 487 00:28:21,410 --> 00:28:24,690 the prison chaplain suggested I speak to a counsellor 488 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,250 because I could not rid myself of thoughts of death. 489 00:28:32,850 --> 00:28:34,930 What would you like to get from these sessions? 490 00:28:35,610 --> 00:28:36,970 I suppose to wake up every day 491 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,180 not hating myself would be a start. 492 00:28:40,170 --> 00:28:42,420 And how do you think you could get to that place? 493 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,340 Through my family. 494 00:28:48,690 --> 00:28:49,970 My children. 495 00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:55,060 By somehow showing them that this is not who I am, 496 00:28:55,090 --> 00:28:58,300 that I did a terrible, terrible thing, but... 497 00:28:58,890 --> 00:29:02,340 I don't think that I'm a terrible person. 498 00:29:05,890 --> 00:29:07,620 I don't expect forgiveness. 499 00:29:07,650 --> 00:29:11,540 I never expected to be forgiven. I just ask for second chance. 500 00:29:12,210 --> 00:29:16,490 To show them that... I could be a good mother again. 501 00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:20,900 Be the person I used to be, or should have been. 502 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,420 Could may be even still. 503 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,060 And who was that? 504 00:29:28,410 --> 00:29:30,490 She was kind, I think. 505 00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:33,860 And loving. 506 00:29:36,090 --> 00:29:39,860 With conscience. She knew right from wrong. 507 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,730 And she didn't want much. 508 00:29:47,090 --> 00:29:50,620 A happy family, enough money to pay the bills. 509 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,620 A simple life. 510 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,970 So, how do you get back to her? 511 00:30:03,130 --> 00:30:04,210 I don't know. 512 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,660 OK, mate. You take care. 513 00:30:10,090 --> 00:30:11,100 How is he? 514 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,340 Angry. 515 00:30:15,610 --> 00:30:16,620 Sad. 516 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,210 Laughing about it, and then... crying. 517 00:30:24,570 --> 00:30:26,210 Fucked up, basically. 518 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:30,780 And you? 519 00:30:32,650 --> 00:30:34,820 It just feels like they're both dead. 520 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,970 I'm not sure I can bear that. 521 00:30:42,850 --> 00:30:45,060 I was never a confident person. 522 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,450 When I look back... my first encounter with him, 523 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,490 John... was when I was 14 on the bus. 524 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,060 And he knocked my school hat off. 525 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,250 It was just a silly joke, and... 526 00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:11,820 ...I'm sure he didn't mean to, but... he made me feel stupid. 527 00:31:13,690 --> 00:31:15,340 More stupid. 528 00:31:16,970 --> 00:31:20,540 I was already very aware I wasn't academic, like him. 529 00:31:21,690 --> 00:31:22,730 But... 530 00:31:23,650 --> 00:31:28,860 maybe that set the tone, as it were. 531 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,820 Because he was the only boy I ever... 532 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,820 And I went straight from my parents' house 533 00:31:39,850 --> 00:31:42,820 to living with him after we got married, so... 534 00:31:43,930 --> 00:31:46,180 ...I never knew anything but him. 535 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,860 How he spoke to me... how he regarded me. 536 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,210 And I think that's been quite a thing... 537 00:31:59,450 --> 00:32:01,730 ...for the last 35 years. 538 00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:16,450 Anne? 539 00:32:17,970 --> 00:32:19,300 Hope it's good news. 540 00:32:19,690 --> 00:32:20,690 Thank you. 541 00:32:30,370 --> 00:32:32,780 Dear Mum, I hope you are well 542 00:32:32,810 --> 00:32:35,300 and not finding things too difficult. 543 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,780 We are all still trying to adjust to what has happened, 544 00:32:38,810 --> 00:32:40,260 which has not been easy. 545 00:32:40,930 --> 00:32:42,900 But I would like to come and see you, 546 00:32:43,090 --> 00:32:45,300 so I'll send a request today. 547 00:32:45,690 --> 00:32:48,260 Take care of yourself. Mark. 548 00:32:53,330 --> 00:32:54,820 I'm just not there. 549 00:32:55,970 --> 00:32:57,730 You don't have to apologise. 550 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,970 Maybe it's the baby, just... 551 00:33:05,450 --> 00:33:07,450 ...knowing I could never do anything to hurt him. 552 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,380 But either way, I'm just not there. 553 00:33:58,570 --> 00:33:59,620 Mum? 554 00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:22,850 We didn't even know until the trial 555 00:34:23,650 --> 00:34:25,460 that you'd been in on it from the start. 556 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,370 That when you hugged me... 557 00:34:29,490 --> 00:34:31,460 ...that first night I came up... 558 00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:33,620 ...you knew! 559 00:34:33,650 --> 00:34:35,020 I'm so sorry. 560 00:34:36,650 --> 00:34:37,620 Everything we found out, 561 00:34:37,650 --> 00:34:39,210 you made us find out in public. 562 00:34:40,210 --> 00:34:42,660 Online, newspapers. 563 00:34:42,690 --> 00:34:44,810 In a bloody court room, Mam! 564 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,940 And there is no excuse. 565 00:34:46,970 --> 00:34:48,290 A reason'd help. 566 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,850 Why, after everything you'd done, you still kept lying. 567 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,330 For the same reason I ever did, Mark, just the shame. 568 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,730 The terrible, terrible guilt and shame I felt. 569 00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:58,700 So it was about you, is it? 570 00:34:58,730 --> 00:35:00,770 H-How telling the truth would make YOU feel? 571 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,290 I knew it would break your hearts, love. 572 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,770 No, no, no, no. No! No! You don't... 573 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,460 - Don't you dare cry! - I'm sorry. 574 00:35:09,970 --> 00:35:13,590 And I just kept thinking, hoping, praying, all along that 575 00:35:13,620 --> 00:35:14,980 there would be some way I could fix it 576 00:35:15,010 --> 00:35:17,420 before that had to happen, but there just never was. 577 00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:19,770 No, you were probably too preoccupied... 578 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,770 drinking pina coladas on the beach! 579 00:35:42,130 --> 00:35:44,810 What did you expect? 580 00:35:45,570 --> 00:35:47,460 No more than what I got. 581 00:35:48,530 --> 00:35:50,100 But I suppose... 582 00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:54,500 I thought I might be left feeling a tiny scrap of hope. 583 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,140 And again, I know I don't deserve that, but... 584 00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,690 it doesn't stop me yearning for it. 585 00:36:03,610 --> 00:36:05,660 It's been so long. 586 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,210 Am I sorry? 587 00:36:10,650 --> 00:36:13,810 Well, that I got caught, yes. Very! 588 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,980 But seriously, of course, if what I did... 589 00:36:23,730 --> 00:36:25,730 ...upset you, then yes. 590 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,500 Of course I'm sorry. 591 00:36:31,050 --> 00:36:32,940 Tell me about the American woman. 592 00:36:34,570 --> 00:36:35,540 And all the others you've been writing 593 00:36:35,570 --> 00:36:37,380 your shabby little letters to. 594 00:36:48,490 --> 00:36:50,420 I know what should be the first step. 595 00:36:50,570 --> 00:36:51,570 "Should"? 596 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,250 Well, because whether I could actually do it not, I don't know. 597 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,540 And what are we talking about? 598 00:36:59,450 --> 00:37:00,770 Leaving him. 599 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:03,330 OK. 600 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,620 And why might you not be able to do that? 601 00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:09,660 I find the idea petrifying. 602 00:37:11,970 --> 00:37:14,980 Despite all the wrongs you feel he's done you? 603 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:16,400 Yes. 604 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,690 And what specifically is it that you're scared of? 605 00:37:22,450 --> 00:37:23,660 Everything. 606 00:37:26,570 --> 00:37:29,500 I've never lived any part of my life on my own. 607 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,250 I wouldn't know how to even be, who I even am. I mean... 608 00:37:35,690 --> 00:37:37,620 ...for my entire adult life, 609 00:37:37,650 --> 00:37:40,580 I've just been an extension of him, really. 610 00:37:41,490 --> 00:37:43,980 Or not even that, just a nothing. 611 00:37:44,730 --> 00:37:45,900 Invisible. 612 00:37:46,730 --> 00:37:49,850 And so starting again, from scratch... 613 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:55,690 ...trying to create a new me at the age of nearly 60... 614 00:37:56,490 --> 00:37:58,900 ...it makes me sick with fear, Grace. 615 00:38:00,650 --> 00:38:03,500 Slightly different tack. Does John make you happy? 616 00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:05,460 He has done at times in our life. 617 00:38:05,490 --> 00:38:07,060 I'm not happy now, obviously, 618 00:38:07,090 --> 00:38:09,370 and haven't been much in the last ten years or so, 619 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:10,980 but before that, yes. 620 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,250 But on balance? Would you say he's been good for you? 621 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,660 He gave me two beautiful sons. 622 00:38:24,930 --> 00:38:27,100 'I knew what she wanted me to say, 623 00:38:27,170 --> 00:38:29,500 'but ridiculous as it might seem... 624 00:38:30,130 --> 00:38:33,210 '...I just didn't feel strong enough to be on my own.' 625 00:38:36,930 --> 00:38:39,980 He's beautiful, mate. Must have Lou's genes. 626 00:38:40,650 --> 00:38:42,250 Well, I bloody hope so. 627 00:38:43,010 --> 00:38:45,140 Wouldn't want too many of our side in there. 628 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,660 No, fair enough. 629 00:38:52,490 --> 00:38:54,900 Flick was just saying you saw her again last week. 630 00:38:56,530 --> 00:38:57,530 Yeah. 631 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,540 And how was it? 632 00:39:03,930 --> 00:39:05,380 It's still hard. 633 00:39:07,010 --> 00:39:09,100 I'm not quite sure what I'm hoping for. 634 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:11,940 I think... 635 00:39:14,490 --> 00:39:16,140 I think I've just come to the conclusion 636 00:39:16,170 --> 00:39:18,380 that I'd prefer to have her in my life than not. 637 00:39:23,050 --> 00:39:24,060 Dad? 638 00:39:26,450 --> 00:39:27,620 Harder. 639 00:39:30,090 --> 00:39:32,020 I'm not sure he really gets it. 640 00:39:32,930 --> 00:39:34,180 Or ever will. 641 00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:40,730 So, I wrote to her yesterday. 642 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:45,810 Requested a visit. 643 00:39:47,610 --> 00:39:48,610 Ok. 644 00:39:51,930 --> 00:39:54,980 So... all I'll say... 645 00:39:59,050 --> 00:40:03,210 ...just don't expect any... blinding moment of forgiveness. 646 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:05,290 Cos my guess is that ain't gonna happen. 647 00:40:07,690 --> 00:40:10,500 I think it's just gonna be this very long, slow... 648 00:40:13,610 --> 00:40:15,020 ...accommodation. 649 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:45,140 Hello, Mam. 650 00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:46,580 Hello, love. Thank you so much coming. 651 00:40:46,610 --> 00:40:48,180 I'm so pleased to see you. 652 00:40:48,650 --> 00:40:51,580 Well, I couldn't not let you meet this little fella, could I? 653 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,540 I don't know what to say. How old is he? 654 00:41:00,570 --> 00:41:02,140 He's four months now. 655 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,250 He's beautiful. 656 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,100 He takes after his mother. 657 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,210 Who asked me to say hello and that she sends you her love. 658 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,210 That's incredibly kind of her. 659 00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:14,380 Please send her my love and huge congratulations. 660 00:41:17,530 --> 00:41:18,690 Would you like to hold him? 661 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:20,900 I would, very much. 662 00:41:43,730 --> 00:41:46,770 'It was an extraordinary act of generosity... 663 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,540 '...that I didn't deserve. 664 00:41:49,930 --> 00:41:51,810 'And it finally gave me the strength 665 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,810 'to do what I had needed to do for so long.' 666 00:42:04,010 --> 00:42:04,660 Hello? 667 00:42:04,690 --> 00:42:06,060 What the hell's going on? 668 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,980 You've stopped writing. Haven't been taking my calls. 669 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:10,760 Why? 670 00:42:11,170 --> 00:42:12,980 You don't make me happy, John. 671 00:42:13,970 --> 00:42:16,140 I think you haven't for many years. 672 00:42:17,050 --> 00:42:18,540 You don't hear me. 673 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,210 - 'You don't listen to me...' - That is total rubbish, Anne. 674 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:23,500 - 'You don't know what you're...' - You're not listening now. 675 00:42:23,530 --> 00:42:27,730 Just stop talking, please. Just stop always talking and listen. 676 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,370 But much more important than any of that, 677 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,690 I don't think you love me, John. 678 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:35,320 I do. 679 00:42:36,090 --> 00:42:38,540 I do love you, Anne, very much. 680 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,580 Or why would I have stayed with you for all these years? 681 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,060 'Don't do this.' 682 00:42:46,650 --> 00:42:50,730 Don't throw 36 years and two smashing boys away. 683 00:42:51,210 --> 00:42:52,980 'We can be happy again.' 684 00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:55,020 I promise we can. 685 00:42:56,090 --> 00:42:57,140 No. 686 00:42:57,730 --> 00:42:59,580 I don't think you do love me. 687 00:43:00,690 --> 00:43:03,980 Or maybe you just don't know what proper love is. 688 00:43:04,490 --> 00:43:05,540 Please. 689 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,770 And either way... I don't love you any more. 690 00:43:09,970 --> 00:43:11,730 You've hurt me too much. 691 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,180 - You do love me. - 'No.' 692 00:43:17,090 --> 00:43:20,540 No, I don't. And I want a divorce. 693 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,460 'About eight months before my release, 694 00:43:43,690 --> 00:43:46,250 'I was transferred to an open prison 695 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,660 'to help prepare me for my return to normal life. 696 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:57,180 'And then in March 2011, a few days shy of nine years 697 00:43:57,210 --> 00:43:59,620 'since John had paddled out to sea, 698 00:44:00,570 --> 00:44:03,660 'I was released to a halfway house in Leeds. 699 00:44:09,170 --> 00:44:11,100 'I was finally free. 700 00:44:18,490 --> 00:44:21,370 'I'm not sure I'll ever truly understand 701 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,060 'why I made the choices I did. 702 00:44:24,090 --> 00:44:28,500 'It was, as my counsellor said, complicated. 703 00:44:30,050 --> 00:44:31,850 'My children still struggle 704 00:44:31,970 --> 00:44:35,060 'and will certainly never be able to forget what I did to them, 705 00:44:35,090 --> 00:44:36,420 'nor should they. 706 00:44:38,010 --> 00:44:39,810 'We all know we're on a journey 707 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,210 'that will last the rest of our lives... 708 00:44:43,970 --> 00:44:46,380 '...but we are at least on that journey. 709 00:44:47,490 --> 00:44:49,250 'And for that gift, 710 00:44:49,530 --> 00:44:52,250 'I remain more grateful to them 711 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,380 'than it will ever be possible to express. 712 00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:07,020 'They say the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference, 713 00:45:07,090 --> 00:45:10,140 'which is what I now feel for my ex-husband. 714 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,180 'But I wish him well 715 00:45:16,530 --> 00:45:19,850 'and sincerely hope that he finds happiness. 716 00:45:20,970 --> 00:45:22,940 'I will try to do the same. 717 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,250 'I will also keep trying to find me.'